Passing and offence to playmaker. Sep 28, at PM - Pattelite : my fwd build dangler i feel he super fast like martin st louis Sep 28, at PM - jdheagle- : I dont see any negatives in doing that Sep 28, at PM - Dingssss : I feel like there would be more skill gap if builds were higher and more agile.
You could utilize loose Dekes and do everything you want. Were so fucking limited right now and with them patching LT it's even worse then 19 Sep 28, at PM - Viktomize : How lazy and stupid are they to keep the builds the same as 19? And the traits are broke too yeah lets get better here but worse here durrrr Sep 28, at PM - Saucing Pucks : Lol same damn chatbox convo everyday.
EA is a massive corporation that only cares about money. Until people stop buying the game they will continue to do the same thing but we all like Sep 28, at PM - AlexeiKovalev27 : playing so it will continue. Sep 28, at PM - jdheagle- : rarely can pull Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis. Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - off Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis. Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - 28, at PM - Dingssss : They can still copy and paste everything else.
Sep 28, at PM - trevwings : i still have no idea why they changed the through the legs deke from 16 and 17 Sep 28, at PM - IlFox : Gap control would solve your problem of getting burned by 90 guys yardage Sep 28, at PM - Dingssss : It's mainly the new Dekes implemented in Side step chip Deke.
I am going to stream on mixer my goalie practice session. If any owner wants to scout me. Who we got Sep 28, at PM - Symtex : mixer. Sep 28, at PM - Symtex : burn it to the ground Sep 28, at PM - Pattelite : Tris10 u ready to watch your leafs take the first lost of there season oct 2 Sep 28, at PM - IlFox : How long have you had that copy pasted and ready to go Tris?
Sep 28, at PM - Pattelite : that brady tkachuk Come Over - Morphine - At Your Service going to be better then his brother.
Sep 28, at PM - trevwings : Mr Ray Shero : So people should be ablle to handle the Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis. Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - at full speed without a penalty Classic lg moment dan Sep 28, at PM - Dr Yargage : And what causes everyone to bitch about "no speed gap" Sep Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis.
Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - at PM - GrizoIogy : The thing is if you beat someone and they have to turn all the way around and you're 2 strides ahead of them they shouldnt catch you unless you're like 6'5 with 78 speed Sep 28, at PM - Pattelite : they need to take the late penalties call out of the game never happens Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis.
Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - real life. When can I see? Time changed the companies directions. He needs it. Big troll will be heard soon! Seinfeld recently auctioned off a large number of his Porsches which sold for millions of dollars.
Even though he got rid of more than a dozen cars, we bet that he still has plenty of Porsches in his garage. Some of the amazing cars that he auctioned included a Spyder, Carrera 3. It is clear that this comedy legend is the best Porsche collector out there. Login Sign Up. These celebs are the true Porsche VIPs. Tags: Porsche Celebrity Collection Feature. Car New Will Mean.
I'm glad to see that BMW is bringing an electric car to market. That's cool. Self-driving cars are the natural extension of active safety and obviously something we should do. Car Safety Something Active. My opinion is it's a bridge too far to go to fully autonomous cars. Car Bridge Go Opinion. Tesla is becoming a real car company. Car Real Company Becoming. Tesla is here to stay and keep fighting for the electric car revolution. Car Fighting Revolution Stay.
Here comes I'm feeling my age and I've ordered the Ferrari. There's nothing it makes any difference to. I know Susan went on to say that their method at trial was to mix lies with the truth but even that is suspect; it is said purely in regards to trying to scotch HS as one of the motives and somehow try to prove she didn't stab Sharon Tate. As such, it makes little sense because in lying about what happened, they did throw in little, inconsequential bits of truth.
Nevertheless, an essential part of the story is how Steven Parent came to die and how it set the chain of events into motion. While I don't recall anything Pat ever said about the shooting of Steven, the other three were unanimous in how the headlights suddenly appeared and Tex's actions and the way the whole Parent shooting happened in a flash, so much so that no one actually saw him wielding a knife.
William, the noise of the fence breaking might have been minimal. That house was built in the 40's. That fence probably hadn't been replaced the whole time. Old wood just splits and cracks. That would probably sound like stepping on old wood. If gun shots didn't wake the people, why would that wake people? Your timeline of Ireland is interesting, and of course adds to the mystery of this case, but why would all of the perps say that Parent was shot first if that's not what happened.
In fact, wouldn't it make it harder for them to remember, since they were all freaked out drug addicts? Wouldn't it be easier to remember that Parent was killed first? Those people calling in that night could have been confused about something else in that canyon. The killers admitted they killed Parent. Why lie about when? Does that get them leverage? He would have seen one man, Tex, and not the three girls, who at the command of Tex hid in the bushes.
Before he was shot, he said according to the Tex Watson book, p. So from the killing of Parent to the killing of the four people in the house would be 30 minutes at the most. I ask, could they have done all that they are said to have done in that short amount of time? That 30 minutes includes crawling through the dining room window, waking up Frykowski on the couch, getting Abigail Folger and Sharon Tate and Jay Sebring into the living room, the words exchanged between the killers and the victims prior to the slayings, tying them up, the actual slayings themselves, the writing of Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis.
Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - word Pig on the door, etc. If on the other hand, the killing of Parent was the final act, then we can solve five problems.
The sound of four shots were not heard by the four inside the house. The breaking of the fence was not heard by the four inside. The beginning of the attack could be earlier, say midnight, adding about twenty minutes more to the timeline.
Kott said that she heard three or four shots in close sequence between and What do we lose by going with this solution? The combined statements of Tex, Susan, and Linda all say Parent was the first to die. That of course is a major problem. On the other hand, no mention is made by any of them that Parent had first run into the fence and then tried to go out the gate.
They should have heard the breaking of the fence, if no one in the house did. So for the sake of solving five problems at the sacrifice of one, I am willing to go with the solution that the shooting of Parent was the final act.
That would mean that Tex, Susan, and Linda lied about the sequence of the events. Everything else they said about Parent was the truth. Why would they all agree to lie on this particular point? The police report said tobut testimony under oath is stronger evidence than a report. Where do Atkins, Krenwinkel or Kasabian say Parent was shot in the driveway where the car was found?
I must have missed that. If that's the case, how did the car get into the fence and get back out of the fence? There are photographs of the broken fence and I think corresponding damage on the car. I think it's obvious that the car was in the fence at some point and a dead person can't drive a car.
I haven't looked these details up for years, but I'm thinking Watson stopped the car in the driveway, possibly attacked Parent with the bayonet because he didn't want to fire the gun and alert people, Parent put the car in reverse and backed into the fence in an attempt to flee. That's where he was murdered by Watson shooting him with the gun. They might have thought there was a danger of the car rolling down the hill with Steven Parent's body in it.
Nevertheless, at some point the car was almost certainly in the fence, and somehow it got out of the fence, and a dead person can't drive In The Lobby - The Hexorcist - A Devil Of An Album car. I've never heard any mention of anyone moving the car out of the fence, the Mansons, the police, or anyone else. I've long thought about the significance of the clock radio, as perhaps something more than an item being offered for sale.
To that end, I leave the following for all to ponder: Entertain the possibility that it is Friday night. Steve met Bill hitchhiking perhaps two weeks prior. Bill tells Steve Eko Ile - Fela Ransome-Kuti* & The Africa 70* - Afrodisiac he lives on an estate along side actors, directors, a rich heiress, etc, and Steve is more than a little intrigued--perhaps more like dazzled at 18 tender years of age.
For two weeks Steve stews thinking about a reason to visit Bill, and possibly make contact with the "Beautiful People. Moreover, what if Steve encountered the Beautiful People first? Perhaps he'd panic, and not know how to present himself socially. Perhaps Steve needed a prop--something to get him past the gate and on to the property as a man with a true reason or mission.
The clock radio could accomplish this. Steve really did not need to sell the clock radio, it was simply a calling card to gain access. After all, Steve worked part-time as a stereo salesman, so that bit would have played into the reason that he had a clock radio, say, and not a camera. To be sure, we know Bill did not expect Steve, according to Bill's polygraph testimony, so the clock radio could have helped neutralize any strange suspicions Bill had as to why Steve shows up around midnight unannounced.
Additionally we know that Steve went on at length as to the identity of the two girls in the main house. Could it be that, at some point, Steve hoped he could have met the Beautiful People? Perhaps Steve thought that Bill might have introduced them, and Steve could have been comfortable in his role of stereo salesman to the Benedict Canyon and Hollywood set. If so, and at that age, Steve must have been giddy with excitement. Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis. Did You Buy A Porsche Yet?
- Audio Recording Club - he was paid on that Friday, and like so many young guys, felt like going out into the adult world for a bit of a night on the town--even if that meant only seeing some movie stars at Cielo, drinking a can of beer in the guest house, and working a Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis.
Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - deal for a writer of Star Trek episodes in Hollywood. If memory serves, Steve's sister claimed that, as Steve still lived at home, he had to be home at a certain time. If so, Steve had to finish work at the stereo store, make the rounds of rubbing elbows with the rich and famous, and still do a stereo deal in Hollywood, while making it home at a respectable time. If he was late, no matter.
Steve could have said legitimately that he Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis. Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - tending to a customer's stereo in Hollywood, and since he had to take care of it after work, naturally he may be a bit late in returning home.
And what if Steve DID sell the clock radio? Just another sale for an enterprising young man. Taken together, I feel Steve was a young guy who was simply curious about a world that was exciting to him. If he could at least SEE it, he perhaps could feel as though he were a part of it, at least for one summer evening, before going off to college the next month. About the car backing into the fence: when I first read Bugliosi's book, I felt that when Steve was shot, he may have been trying to reverse away from Watch The Sun Go Down - Killing Joke - The Act Is Done. In so doing, and after succumbing to the shots, he We Are All Made Of Stars - Moby - 18 (New Album 2002) control of the car in reverse, there by striking the fence.
It would then be up to Tex to drive and steer the car away from the fence, and back to the gate. Yet of course this is unsubstantiated by the killers. Those people calling in that night could have been confused about something else in that canyon You've only got to look at the wide disparity of reported happenings that night to see that they did not all belong to the same event, as you correctly allude to.
Which leads to the simple conclusion that disparate sounds in the canyons and reports of the nature of that which came through that night were by no means unusual. It is only Sweet Rosie OGrady - Living Strings - When Irish Eyes Are Smiling some verified murders happened during that particular night that the variety of reports even mattered in the first place.
And the reason, the only reason, they mattered was that at the time of that first Tate police report, the police had no idea when what had happened actually did happen. All the times of death had very wide arcs. Bugliosi in his actual case jettisons most of the reports. None whatsoever. I know William is keen to throw a spanner in the works as many have done for many years, but it Dont Get Around Much Anymore - Various - The Swing Years doesn't go anywhere.
In order to make one thing work, you have to start undoing other pieces and overriding all is that no evidence backs up the speculative assertions. Secondly, people lie under oath. People can be mistaken or confused under oath. People can be cajoled Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis.
Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - a skilled lawyer to say what the lawyer wants the witness to say under oath.
Leslie Van Houten was under oath when she implicated herself in the Hinman murder. Tex was under oath when he initially denied stabbing Sharon Tate. Bobby Beausoleil was under oath when he said Charlie stabbed Gary Hinman to death.
Mary Brunner was under oath when she implicated Leslie and took herself out of the Hinman murder. Susan was under oath when she said she killed Gary Hinman and she was under oath when asked what the troupe did after dropping off the killers at the LaBiancas and neglected to mention heading to an apartment block with the intention of committing a murder.
Charlie was under oath when he accused the police of wrongfully arresting Bobby when he knew Bobby had killed Gary. Pat was under oath when she attested to the copycat slayings to get Bobby out of jail. Need I go on? Testimony under oath depends on a number of variables, not least who is saying what. He would have seen one man, Tex, and not the three girls, who at the command of Tex hid in the bushes Actually, we don't really know what he would have seen.
Tex's command assumes super lightning fast reactions. But Susan and Linda both saw the headlights very suddenly and obviously. We don't know that those headlights did not pick out one or more of them. Susan, when describing the murder to one of her cellmates certainly assumed they'd been seen. Most certainly. That 30 minutes includes crawling Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis. Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - the dining room window, waking up Frykowski on the couch, getting Abigail Folger and Sharon Tate and Jay Sebring into the living room, the words exchanged between the killers and the victims prior to the slayings, tying them up, the actual slayings themselves, the writing of the word Pig on the door, etc One of the most telling indications of this comes from Leslie's private interview with Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis.
Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - lawyer Marvin Part on December 29th She tells Blues For Oliver - Chick Corea & Friends Featuring Lionel Hampton - Come Rain Or Come Shine, in a recording that was never meant to be heard by anyone other than Judge Dell, that Pat told her: " And it happened so quick, and it was a horrible thing.
You Dont Get Around Much Anymore - Various - The Swing Years, she was shaken up by it. And then somehow we heard the news, and they said, 'Oh, my God, they were rich,' you know, 'they were famous people,' you know. They said Just One Of Those Things (Brazilian Girls Remix) - Various - Verve // Remixed³ was done real messy; and it happened in about twenty minutes, you know.
If on the other hand, the killing of Parent was the final act, then we can solve five problems Assume for a moment it was. What you really end up with is a group of perps who, for some reason have chosen to lie about the sequence. The broken fence is indeed an irrelevance because you then have much bigger fish to fry. The entire case becomes a travesty of justice, and so many people are discredited. Aaron Stovitz. Evelle Younger.
Vince Bugliosi. Steve Kay. Donald Musich. The entire LAPD. All the witnesses. I could go on, but you get the picture. And all for the sake of what? A stupid bit of broken fence that there seems to be Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis.
Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - need to make somehow significant. Abigail, also Time To Break Free - Gamma Ray - The Best Of had MDA was at the far end August 7, 4:15 - Jon Bon Jovi - Destination Anywhere the house, reading a book as were Jay and Sharon in the bedroom opposite Abigail's, chatting.
With the stereo on and the lesser report of the. So Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis. Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - ceases to be a problem. The breaking of the fence was not heard by the four inside Why is this even a problem? The beginning of the attack could be earlier, say midnight, adding about twenty minutes more to the timeline It could well be earlier.
I don't have a problem with it either way. This testimony was 14 months later. Not at midnight but after. And this is the day after the murders. Balanced against this is that Jerold testified that when he was speaking to Steve on the phone at Garretson's, he could hear music and when he asked what it was, Steve specified that it was the "stereo, it is the radio.
So all in all, I'd say that it is impossible to give absolute second by second time definitions of every move. All of the time information in its impeccable neatness say more about Bugliosi's desire for order than anything else. With the clock radio stopped atIreland hearing screams at and Weber pretty sure of encountering the killers around 1am what we end up with are approximations that arise from estimationsas you'd expect, and none of it makes a single bit of difference to what happened.
That's how we know. Ireland originally told the police it was But that's a secondary issue. You're trying to connect Tim Ireland with Steven Parent in order to give weight to your theory.
It's interesting that in the summing up of evidence, Paul Fitzgerald tries to pin that statement on Parent and when rebutting Fitzgerald, Bugliosi mentions this as one of his examples of Paul "mis-stating the evidence. So that one is not going to fly. Kott said that she heard three or four shots in close sequence between and Mrs Kott alone kills your theory.
Firstly, she had no idea exactly when her dinner guests left. Secondly, she had absolutely no idea what time she heard the sequence of shots. No idea at all. She did not check the time. It was later Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis. Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - she guessed the time as being between and 1am. So that's pretty useless. Most importantly, Mrs Kott was not used as a witness at the trial.
It's easy to see why. She heard sounds that sounded like shots, didn't have a clue what time, didn't wake her husband to say "Seymour! Did you hear that? So for the sake of solving five problems at the sacrifice of one, I am willing to go with the solution that the shooting of Parent was the final act Any conspiracy theorist worth their salt should be.
Conspiracy theorists routinely Neurotransmission - Various - ADE2K17 solutions where no problems actually exist. However, we only have Tex's word for these actual words being uttered and this recollection came 9 years after the murder. And the passing of the years only serves to emphasize this, to the extent that at his last parole hearing, he was getting caught out with stuff that is written in his own book by the DA.
Because he can't remember. Whereas, Susan, just 4 months after the murder recalls the form of words slightly differently. And Linda a few months after that recalls it the same way. She also pointed out that when they had seen the headlights, Tex was in a low-down or crouching position because he jumped up and moved to the car.
That might wig anyone out, seeing that. If Parent was shot atthen his panicky mistake in putting the car in reverse and slamming into the fence makes more sense There is no reason it would make any more sense at than at the times the perps say they encountered him. Or one of those awkward bollards? Unseen hazards from both the back windscreen and rear view mirror. I got in from work about an hour ago and the first thing my wife Beautiful Blue Eyes - Various - Thirty Years Of Bluegrass to me was that she'd reversed into someone's car in the Asda car park.
I told her about this conversation and laughed. Grim said, You're trying to connect Tim Ireland with Steven Parent in order to give weight to your theory. The words of Frykowski were not the words of someone begging for mercy, but a call for someone to rescue him Garretson, perhaps? Therefore, the man who spoke them must have been Steve Parent. Grim said, It's interesting that in the summing up of evidence, Paul Fitzgerald tries to pin that statement on Parent and when rebutting Fitzgerald, Bugliosi mentions this as one of his examples of Paul "mis-stating the evidence.
He was the one who asked Manson if he entered the Tate Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis. Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - that night and disturbed the crime scene and Manson said yes Sanders, p.
On May 27, he filed a contempt of court motion against the prosecutors for not allowing him to see the evidence that they had gathered, especially photographs of the bloody boot heel print near the front door outside. He also wanted to see photographs of the mysterious eyeglasses as they were found next to the steamer trunks.
He wanted to know more about the rope used to tie the victims. He said the police were ignoring — and withholding — vital pieces of evidence, particularly the bloody boot heel print and the glasses — that would lead to the true killers. I regard Paul Fitzgerald as a true hero in the case. According to Bugliosi, p. And so are a hundred other scenarios.
Why wouldn't you beg for mercy if someone was repeatedly stabbing you? I remember when I was at school and a friend of mine who had been in hospital having his appendix out was set upon by our homicidal lunatic of a principal and caned within an inch of his life "for being a truant.
Oh sir please, no! The words of Frykowski were not the words of someone begging for mercy, but a call for someone to rescue him They were both. Not that the word "help" is in there, but that the words "oh God" are in there. Tex says absolutely nothing in his description of Steven Parent of the words "Oh God. So by trying to prove Tex has the form of words Frykowski did use, you end up demonstrating the words Parent didn't use.
Which mauls your own point. According to Atkins. He was Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis. Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - for his life. S: On the front lawn away from the front door. Evidently he had moved, was still alive, and was still moving. B: Was he standing or lying down? S: Lying with his back to me. B: He was lying down when Tex kicked him in the head?
S: Yes, and the body didn't move very much. I believe it was dead at that time. So she says Frykowski is alive, is still moving, is lying down with his back to her and is not moving very much because he's dead. That makes a whole lot of sense! Rely on Suzie at your peril.
Additionally, Tim Ireland specifically said that the words he heard had no accent, as would be the case if Frykowski spoke them. Therefore, the man who spoke them must have been Steve Parent That really does not follow. If you heard someone screaming out of the blue for a few seconds a great distance away, you would not be able to process whether or not the person was screaming with an accent.
On a daily basis as I approach the school I work in, you can hear children screaming all kinds of things in the playground. Now, one of the classes I work in had a class assembly today that was about Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis.
Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - countries they come from and in our class of 30 kids alone, there are 14 nationalities. If I were to add the rest in the school it would be more than Many were born here in England, many not. Believe me, you cannot distinguish any accent at a distance.
Ireland said he heard just 6 words from a great distance. It took him by surprise. It wasn't something he was expecting or listening out for. So of course he wasn't going to be able to distinguish an accent because he heard a voice. Tim heard it once. It also occurs to me that if Steven Parent was begging Tex, he'd hardly be screaming at him, especially if he's trying to convince him he won't tell!
I actually really like Paul's character. He's one of the players in this saga that I really warm to. And how is it Hooste - De Höhner* - Näl Met Köpp him to point out that one of the areas where he mis-stated the evidence happens to be when he apportioned Frykowski's statement to Parent and was called out on Drinking Coffee From Counselor Trois Head - Drinking Coffee From Counselor Trois Head I'm just stating what happened.
He said the police were ignoring — and withholding — vital pieces of evidence, particularly the bloody boot heel print and the glasses — that would lead to the true killers Throughout, he and Irving Kanarek did things like that. They wouldn't have been lawyers doing their jobs if they didn't do what they could to get their clients off.
And in a case like this, to try to cast the prosecuting team as the bad guys was a good move. Didn't mean it was true though. It's quite obvious reading George Bishop's book "Witness to evil," that Paul spoke a lot to the press despite the gag order. According to Ivor Davis, Paul was "a great source of inside information to the media during the trial" and he also said that Paul admitted to some reporters that he felt Pat and the girls had done what they were accused of doing because they were zonked out on acid that Charlie had doled out regularly.
It doesn't appear he took on the case because he thought Pat was an innocent woman being shafted. I was going by Tim Ireland's actual testimony. As I said before, Rich Sparks, the girls camp supervisor, logged the time that Ireland came to him telling what he had heard and requesting permission to drive around and check to see if there was any trouble about. Sparks logged the time at Now, prior to this, Ireland had heard the scream, checked to make sure all the girls were OK then gone to Sparks.
So what he heard, he heard before Only a few minutes, but hey. Neither the paper, Ireland or Bugliosi were entirely accurate. But accuracy to the exact nanosecond is not important.
Bugliosi had a fixation with keeping to an exact timeline but if you read the trial transcript, he never actually gets one. So again I'll say it, what we have are approximations based on, for the most part, estimates and an estimate is a ball park figure. It doesn't matter if there is not an exactitude. It would only matter if one or all of the killers were claiming to have been in another place at that time.
Grim said, I wasn't Youre Probably Just Having A Mid-life Crisis. Did You Buy A Porsche Yet? - Audio Recording Club - by Bugliosi's book. Can you cut and paste the relevant testimony regarding Sparks logging the time?
Devil's Advocate - Parent crashed into the fence when he arrived. He drank the beer to calm his nerves. How do we really know that Parent backed into the fence? If you look at that fence all along the property, it's broken down in several places. Just because the cops said there was some paint evidence on Parent's car doesn't mean that he got that from backing into the fence.
Did they do forensics on that or just "eyeball it". That house was pretty much broken down in It looked like it hadn't had a new coat of paint or a new roof since it was built in the 40's. That was a King's Ransom! And I don't think the tenants were doing much to improve that property except they had a maid to come and clean. There were trash cans that were overflowing and piles of junk all around outside on the property.
Katie, I would have to say that, according to the First Tate Homicide Investigation Progress Report, the fact that Steve's car struck the fence was firmly established.
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